Mord-Prozess Oscar Pistorius

Lila Pause schrieb:Die SMS...die langen, geben ja auch diese Situationen wieder, wo sie seine Ausraster anspricht, wie er sie behandelt, gerne auch vor anderen, sie diskreditiert und entwürdigt...Warum soll das ausgedacht sein- am Ende war sie tot, weil er sich durch sie so gereizt sah, dass er einfach geschossen hat.

Lila Pause schrieb:Die SMS...die langen, geben ja auch diese Situationen wieder, wo sie seine Ausraster anspricht, wie er sie behandelt, gerne auch vor anderen, sie diskreditiert und entwürdigt...Warum soll das ausgedacht sein- am Ende war sie tot, weil er sich durch sie so gereizt sah, dass er einfach geschossen hat.

Ahnungsloser schrieb:Ein interessantes Disput zwischen 2 Juristen zum Thema premidated vs intentional:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/mar/31/nancy-grace/nancy-grace-talks-oscar-pistorious-trial-could-pre/

Es gäbe auch in den USA in einzelnen Staaten Gesetze, wonach "premeditated murder can happen 'in the twinkling of an eye'".

" In fact, “premeditation” in South African law simply means “intentional,” meaning that the person that killed meant to do it at the time, and thus that intent can be formed almost instantaneously and need not have been carefully considered beforehand. The other charge, culpable homicide, applies to negligent killings."


https://dies-jenes.forumieren.com/t70p476-mord-prozess-oscar-pistorius#3163

DieGraefin schrieb:But she said, ‘We, we are fighting a lot’. That’s what she said. Which is unusual for Reeva. There were no fights with (ex-boyfriend) Warren ever. Or anybody else.  Or, or, even... personal fights maybe with friends and things, she didn’t... wasn’t one for fighting. But she said, they were fighting a lot.”


Gut dass du das nicht in einem anderen Forum gepostet hast, sonst würde es jetzt wieder 10.000 Scheinargumente hageln, die "beweisen", dass Reeva und OP glücklich waren, weil sonst blabla... Video im Supermarkt... blabla... Valentinstagsgeschenk... blabla...     

Im Übrigen ist auch das (starkes Streiten schon zu Anfang einer Beziehung, wo man eigentlich noch auf Wolke 7 schweben sollte) ein Zeichen für ein Abusive Relationship, denn der Abuser muss ja von Anfang an die Kontrolle übernehmen, was eine starke Partnerin, wie ich Reeva einschätze, aber nicht so einfach mit sich machen lässt, und dann knallt's halt dauernd. Leider war sie zu harmoniebedürftig und in diesem Bedürfnis wahrscheinlich sehr viel eher bereit, ihm immer wieder nachzugeben und zu verzeihen, wenn er dann wieder angekrochen kam. Dieses emotionale Heiß-Kalt-Karussel ist auch typisch für solche Beziehungen.

17 February 2013

Hendrik and Gerti Pistorius celebrated 70 years of marriage last December. They are the grandparents of Oscar Pistorius. Picture: Brendan Croft

Just last Sunday, Oscar Pistorius invited his girlfriend, Reeva, to meet his grandparents for the first time.
They had lunch together and his grandmother, Gerti Pistorius (89), was very impressed by the beautiful Reeva.
On Friday, Gerti heard from her grandson again.
This time it was a text message with the words: “Hang in there, Oumie. You know I love you. Be brave.”
Reeva was dead and when the message was sent from Oscar’s phone – by Oscar himself or on his behalf by his lawyer – he was waiting to appear in court for her murder.
Gerti and Oscar’s grandfather, Henry Pistorius (95), who live in an old age home in Pretoria, have been on medication since Thursday.
Their daughter, Heidi Drew, Oscar’s aunt, is staying with them.
Drew has been sleeping over at her parents’ home since Thursday, “because this news could mean their end”.
Nearly 2 000km away in Port Elizabeth, it is Mike Steenkamp, the brother of Reeva’s father, Barry, who is handling the affairs of the distraught parents.
Mike told City Press yesterday: “Barry and June (Reeva’s mother) are suffering terribly. Fortunately, their other two children are arriving from England today.”
Drew says her parents are shocked and cannot believe what happened.
“My mother is shattered. She is praying for her grandson,” Drew said.
For Drew it was as big a shock.
“It felt as if someone had torn out my heart. We know Oscar and Reeva as a loving couple. All these things we’re hearing about anger and shooting, that’s not our Oscar. We still love Oscar. It’s the end of two people’s lives. Our family is broken. But we continue to pray for their families.”
She said her brother, Henke, Oscar’s father, drove straight to his parents’ home on Friday afternoon, shortly after his son appeared in the Pretoria Magistrates’ Court on a murder charge.
According to Steenkamp, they are coping with their “deep sorrow” by focusing on their good memories of Reeva.
“We are not focusing on Oscar and the legal proceedings. We are concentrating on Reeva, on our wonderful memories. If we shifted our focus to the other side, it would destroy our souls.”
He said: “There is a long road ahead, especially because it is a high-profile case. It gives us strength to stand together as a family.
“Our faith is carrying us. We take it day by day. That is also why the family has decided to stay away from the TV and the radio.
“A more loving, family-oriented, kind, spontaneous person than Reeva you would not find. She was intelligent, loved children and the outdoors. ‘Family first’, was her motto. Wherever she went in the world, she kept in contact with her parents.
“Whatever she did, she did with passion. That’s why she wanted the spotlight placed on the ill treatment of women.
“It’s dreadful to think she was the victim of what she wanted to make her life’s work.”
Carl Pistorius, Oscar’s brother, wrote on Facebook on Friday: “Thank you to all who have shown their love and support for both families.”
Grandmother Gerti will hold a prayer meeting in the old age home for both families tomorrow.
- Gavin Prins and Marlene Malan

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/you-know-i-love-you-be-brave/

Advocate Gerrie Nel closed the prosecution's case against murder accused Oscar Pistorius on Tuesday, calling 21 out of a total of 107 potential witnesses.

If you have been following the trial like a soap opera and feel slightly robbed because you wanted more fireworks, you are probably right.
Some of those not called could have provided for some interesting - albeit unnecessary - tidbits on the Paralympian's life.
We cannot help but wonder what sensational claims the following people could have provided had they taken the stand.
Werner Swart takes a look:


Mark Batchelor
Soccer's bad boy and the man who was booted off SuperSport for fights and bad behaviour had a run-in with Pistorius about five months before the Valentine's Day shooting.
Batchelor and Pistorius sent each other a string of threatening messages after the Paralympian took issue with Batchelor's friend, Quinton van den Bergh, over Pistorius's ex-girlfriend, Samantha Taylor.
Rumours did the rounds that Taylor cheated on Pistorius with Van den Bergh while he was on an athletics trip.
What followed was, depending on your sense of humour, a somewhat hilarious exchange between the two testosterone-fuelled athletes.
Batchelor claimed Pistorius threatened he would "break his legs", and the barrage of threats between the two at one stage even caused the police to call them in and tell them to tone things down.
Nel's decision not to call Batchelor could be because the witness himself has a history of rude and violent behaviour.
But there is no doubt the millions of viewers following the trial closely were robbed of the street fight that might have resulted had defence advocate Barry Roux taken on the former striker.


Jacques van der Merwe
Van der Merwe and his wife, Estelle, live close to Pistorius in the Silver Woods Country Estate.
Estelle was called to testify about an argument she heard about two hours before the shooting, when, she claimed, she heard a "woman crying".
That was until Roux, who no doubt had seen a statement from her husband, pointed out to her that her husband had told her: "No, that is Oscar crying."
It seems Van der Merwe is one of the witnesses who can attest to Roux's claim that Pistorius sounds like a woman when he screams - and apparently also when he cries.
Expect him to be called by the defence.


Johan Stander
The Silver Woods estate manager was the first person Pistorius called after the shooting and he and his daughter were first on the scene.
Stander was close to Pistorius and was one of the first people to whom the athlete told the "I thought she was an intruder" version.
Strangely, Stander phoned Dr Johan Stipp, the radiologist and witness who tried to assist a dying Reeva Steenkamp, minutes after he left the house to tell him Pistorius's lawyers would be calling him.
Stander is also highly likely to be called by the defence, even if it is just to reaffirm that Pistorius mentioned an "intruder" from the start.


Justin Divaris
Pistorius's "best friend", Divaris is a supercar mogul and the person who introduced him to Steenkamp.
One common thread in the circle of friends that Pistorius surrounded himself with is that Divaris was the man who brought them together.
Known for his many "breakfast runs" - when celebrities and models drive supercars provided by Divaris - he was one of the first people the athlete called.


Samantha Greyvenstein 
A model and Divaris's girlfriend, Greyvenstein was close to Steenkamp.
She could have provided some interesting insight into how Steenkamp felt about her new boyfriend and whether there were signs of trouble.


Patricia Ann Taylor
The mother of witness Samantha Taylor did not hide her disdain for Pistorius after the incident.
She used Facebook to write: "'I'm so glad Sammy is safe and out of the clutches of that man".
Her daughter testified about the many incidents during which Pistorius shouted at her and lost his temper, and her mother would have had no kind words for the Olympic superstar.


Erin Stear
Was Pistorius in an exclusive relationship with Steenkamp from the time they first hooked up?
British tabloids claimed Stear was having a fling with Pistorius during the time he was supposed to have been with Steenkamp.
She denied the rumours and, even though she was quizzed by detectives and her name was put on the witness list, she was not called.


Gina Myers and the Myers family
Gina and Steenkamp were best friends and the model lived with the Myers family in Johannesburg.
It was Steenkamp's "Joburg dad", Cecil Myers, who identified her body.
Gina could have provided some interesting information about the state of the relationship and whether Steenkamp ever confided in her about her boyfriend's temper.


Warren Lahoud
Lahoud is Steenkamp's former long-term boyfriend and had coffee with her a few days before the shooting.
He has publicly spoken about how Pistorius phoned Steenkamp several times during this meeting and how he asked her whether she was OK.
It seems rather unfortunate that we will now never truly know what she told her ex - but if it was something dramatic, Nel would have called him.


Hilton Botha
Roux can be forgiven for crying softly on his pillow each night. He would probably have waived his hefty legal fees for one more chance at the former investigating officer.
Nel decided, rather wisely one could say, not to call Botha back to the stand.
He had seen how Roux annihilated the former detective during the bail application, and Botha's conduct on the scene could have provided ample fodder for the defence.


http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/03/31/what-would-they-have-said-pistorius-witnesses-who-were-not-called-to-testify

Lila Pause schrieb:Die SMS...die langen, geben ja auch diese Situationen wieder, wo sie seine Ausraster anspricht, wie er sie behandelt, gerne auch vor anderen, sie diskreditiert und entwürdigt...Warum soll das ausgedacht sein- am Ende war sie tot, weil er sich durch sie so gereizt sah, dass er einfach geschossen hat.

Is Oscar Pistorius the boyfriend from hell?

Jealous. Grumpy. Controlling. Judgmental... Only Judge Thokozile Masipa can decide whether Oscar Pistorius murdered Reeva Steenkamp, but many would agree that, on the evidence led so far, he was not a nice guy to date.


http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/03/31/is-oscar-pistorius-the-boyfriend-from-hell

Noemi schrieb:
gibt es irgendwo männliche vergleichbare Fans von einer weiblichen Mörderin?

Oscar Pistorius' lawyer is likely to call a pathologist to testify first for defence case

Pretoria: Oscar Pistorius' lawyer says a pathologist will likely testify first when the double-amputee athlete's defence team starts calling witnesses at his murder trial next week.
Lawyer Brian Webber said in an email to The Associated Press that the defence plans to start by calling Professor Jan Botha when the trial resumes Monday after a week's adjournment.
Pistorius was expected to open defense testimony but Botha will likely be called first because Webber said the pathologist has some "personal difficulties."



Defence lawyer Barry Roux is likely to call pathologist Professor Jan Botha when the Pistorius trial resumes on Monday. Photo: AFP


Professor Botha will be called to contradict the viewpoint of the state's pathologist, Professor Gert Saayman, who gave graphic testimony about the gunshot wounds sustained by Ms Steenkamp.

He also said food found in her stomach suggested she ate within two hours of her death shortly after 3am. This is apparently in contradiction to the double-amputee's account that the couple went to bed at 10pm.



Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/oscar-pistorius-lawyer-is-likely-to-call-a-pathologist-to-testify-first-for-defence-case-20140402-zqpj4.html#ixzz2xg0Htz2R

Noemi schrieb:"But the professor said at least two of the three wounds could have proved fatal on their own."
Das sagte Professor Saayman...


war klar dass es genau darauf hinausläuft, sie konnte nicht mehr schreien
schon nach dem Hüftschuss nicht mehr oder/und dem Armschuss
wegen Verblutens, Schock, Schmerzen usw.
das wird die These der Verteidigung sein...
naja... und die Zeugen hörten Oscars Lady-Voice... oder so...


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/oscar-pistorius-lawyer-is-likely-to-call-a-pathologist-to-testify-first-for-defence-case-20140402-zqpj4.html#ixzz2xgLXYqzq


sie kann aber geschrien haben als er die Tür aufhebelte......
und wer weiss was zuvor im Schlafzimmer war...

Das bringt die Verteidigung aber auch nur VOR dem Kreuzverhör.  

Gute Nacht!   

Ali schrieb:
Das bringt die Verteidigung aber auch nur VOR dem Kreuzverhör.  

Gute Nacht!   

OSCAR Pistorius will spend the next week with his legal team, methodically rehearsing his answers to a series of questions that will decide whether he spends the next 25 years in a high-security prison for the premeditated murder of his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp.


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/the-crucial-questions-behind-an-oscarwinning-performance/story-fnb64oi6-1226871284809#

Das verspricht genauso dramatisch zu werden, wie seine verlogene Affi, doch Nel wird ihn auf den Boden der Tatsachen zurückbringen.

Ali schrieb:

Das verspricht genauso dramatisch zu werden, wie seine verlogene Affi, doch Nel wird ihn auf den Boden der Tatsachen zurückbringen.

Dumbledore schrieb:Die Geschichte mit dem erkrankten Beisitzer hat für mich auch einen komischen Beigeschmack.